Date: 10/14/2002 7:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
I'm not an expert on the bible, but I thought that Noah cursed his son because he walked in on Noah laying naked on the bed after a drinking binge and basically told Noah to sober up and put some clothes on..I don't think it had anything to do with his skin color, but maybe someone else who knows more about the bible can clear this up..  |
Date: 10/14/2002 7:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55089
What i've stated above about the biblical allusion to the story of Ham, was from a Christian person that i know, who knows a lot about the bible. So, i take her word for it. and i do think that it has to do with the skin color, because this is what the White people's best execuse for making blacks their slaves. If anyone here read "The Narrative of Frederick Douglass" would know what i'm talking about. Although, either way, i am still against slavery.  |
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Date: 10/14/2002 7:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
Genesis 20,21,22,23,24,25 Noah became a farmer and planted a vineyard, and he made wine. One day as he was drunk and lay naked in his tent, Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and went outside and told his two brothers. Then Shem and Japheth took a robe and held it over their shoulders and walking backwards into the tent, let it fall across their father to cover his nakedness as they looked the other way. When Noah awoke from his drunken stupor and learned what had happened and what Ham, his younger son had done, he cursed Ham's descendants....I checked two different bibles and both said nothing about skin color. |
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Date: 10/14/2002 8:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
Regardless, I think slavery is bad..I can't imagine anyone admitting it was ever a good thing. |
Date: 10/14/2002 8:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 53900
I doubt anyone would ever say it is good...unless they are racist. I think forcing anyone to do something without compensation for their work is wrong.  |
Date: 10/14/2002 8:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
No comment.  |
Date: 10/14/2002 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I believe in civil rights for everyone, and no human should ever own or hold ownership of another human. The very thought is disgusting. If we followed the Bible, we would be jailed in society today for practicising the Old testement.  |
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Date: 10/14/2002 8:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55089
Kelly, i'll look more into the story of Ham, and i'll make sure to check up your sources with my Christian friends...either way, i agree that slavery is cruel. no one can truly feel the anguish and torment except for those who actually experienced it... |
Date: 10/14/2002 9:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
1) The reference to the story of Ham in Genesis 9:20-25 has been used by racists seeking to defend slavery and other dehumanizing acts against minorities for many years. 2) Slavery is wrong, and whites that participated in it are guilty. But weren't coastal African tribes warring against other tribes in the interior and selling them to the white slave traders? This would seem to complicate the issue.  |
Date: 10/14/2002 9:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
equality  |
Date: 10/14/2002 10:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 61763
Wasn't Noah meant to be a just and perfect man? anyway god doesn't seem to disapprove of slavery  |
Date: 10/15/2002 1:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 3321
Interesting debate...very interesting. While I say that it has no imminent application to our society because of the Thirteenth Amendment of the US Constitution and the Civil Rights Movement, it is still an interesting exploration of where anyone ever obtained the idea that enslaving others is acceptable, or that anyone is superior to another...  |
Date: 10/15/2002 6:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 20104
I am against slavery.  |
Date: 10/15/2002 6:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
i don't think it had anything to do with HAM, if anything, it had to do with the story of cain going out and taking a wife and i've heard that those descendants are the ones marked with color. but, i don't believe in the bible -----i don't think it had to do with the bible, it had to do with people that were not as advanced, and were easily used - their own kings sold them into slavery for MONEY - that is why it happened, money to the kings of africa, and free labor to the whites of america - - it had nothing to do with the bible ----and i think the thing everyone forgets, is that yes, we bought them, but WHO did we buy them from? eh?  |
Date: 10/15/2002 7:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
Slavery HAD/HAS nothing to do with Racism (as the ill informed amoung us may think). Slavery as a concept goes back far beyond biblical times to slaves taken as spoils of war and indentured servants who willingly sold them selves into slavery. In fact African slaves serving Europeans was a very small portion of the slave trade that was actually started by African tribal chiefs and merchants as a way to rid themselves of rival tribes and of course build money and power. In fact Arabs held more slaves than Europeans and STILL hold more slaves from the african continent
than anyone.  |
Date: 10/15/2002 8:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 1631
Listen to BCAR. He is a wise man (and a wise a.. oh.. never mind)...  |
Date: 10/15/2002 9:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 49742
I am against slavery!  |
Date: 10/15/2002 11:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 53500
Heather, Wow sweetie you and I agree! Yeah! The almighty dollar was behind slavery, always has been, always will be. Yes racists, i.e. the KKK may try and justify their hate by "quoting" the Bible, but that's not where it's at. It's money and power. Skin color is not mentioned of Noah or any of his sons or grandsons. Author, your friend should know better then this. Besides, Noah curses Canaan, not Ham, so there's more misinformation right there. Cain and his wife also have nothing to do with skin color or slavery. SUEDE  |
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Date: 10/15/2002 11:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
yes suede, and they might as well call the mexicans slaves that we pay so very very little to work in our factories there....and the illegal immigrants we KNOW about but let stay so they can be paid so little --i don't mean the govt, i mean the people that employ them...yes, it is always about money. |
Date: 10/15/2002 12:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
So where do the green eggs come into play...  |
Date: 10/15/2002 1:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 56927
Slavery is really interesting to me. Not least that nobody really kows what it is. These days we have a subtle kind of slavery, where the victims aren't so much forced into it by violence, but kept happy. Now the conundrum here is whether or this type of slavery is a bad thing. Slavery really shouldn't pose too much of a problem as long as we know about it + we agree with the pretenses under which we are kept. The worst thing would be to be a slave and not know about it. When we are free though, we get a choice. We can run around in the daisies like children or we work hard for whoever it is we work for, be it God or our bosses. As long as we agree with the valuse of those we work for. bob  |
Date: 10/17/2002 4:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 55255
there were pros to slavery mind u. they dont have to deal with tigers now  |
Date: 10/18/2002 5:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 49150
I couldn't imagine anyone being pro-slavery. My mind can't even comprehend the subject. That would have to be one of the worst things you to do to anyone.  |
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Date: 10/22/2002 7:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 53683
the last time that i read the bible it didnt say anything about slaves being black. just because someone says slave it doesnt mean that they were black. the bible doesnt say someones skin color it says where they are from or their religion. weather people want to believe it or not all slaves were black and not all slave owners were white. |
Date: 11/1/2002 7:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 56147
I'm agaisnt slavery of all kind! I never read the bible (...) so I don't know what it says, and the civil rights, well its good in theory but... *Freedom to all kind of ppl* The only way to make the world to a better place for other people, is to start with yourself and the people close to you. It's sad that the world need rules to make sure ppl don't hate other ppl based on rase/religion etc  |
Date: 11/2/2002 5:59:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55089
NOTE TO ALL READERS:
I've asked my teacher about this topic, and there is a correction to it: it was not Adam that Ham saw naked, it was Noah. but the whole race thing about Ham and his ancestors is correct. If you guys still have disagreements on that, you may disregard it and continue with the debate: Are you proslavery or Antislavery? Back up your claim. Thank you. |
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Date: 1/24/2003 12:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 53683
well excuse me my bible must have been written by the naacp it doesnt say Black negro or any thing of the sort. |
