Date: 10/12/2002 9:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 56630
hey itz me IC,anywayz yes he did,after the times and times i have been im church,it is tru,he did go down to hell for a while.I'm not tryin ta make an artgument and im not sayin i'm right iutz just i got church like almost every week so thios is whut i heard and this is whut i beleive.  |
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Date: 10/12/2002 9:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 56630
i mena my point iz that he must have because i heard that the devil went to heaven for a while.BE AWARE!i HEARD THAT!!! |
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Date: 10/13/2002 7:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 48668
It is true that Jesus went to hell for awhile after he was crucified and died on the cross. It is said that Jesus "rose from the dead", the dead being those in hell. Before Jesus, all souls descended into hell to await the Saviour and Jesus descended there to bring the great news to the dead in hell. It is also true that the devil was once in Heaven. Before there was sin, the devil, originally Lucifer, was an angel, but turned away from God to start his own "kingdom". |
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Date: 10/14/2002 2:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 24934
No Jesus did not go to hell! Do you remember what He told the thief on the cross? He said; "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Lk. 23:43), not "today shalt thou be with me in hell." When Jesus died He went to a place he calls paradise in "Hades" not to be cofused with hell. The word Hades means "unseen." This is where all who die await the return of Jesus. Those who are "in Christ" are together in one part of hades, and those who have died outside of Christ also await, separated by a "great gulf" or "chasm." You can read this in Luke 16:19-31. And dont let people persuade you into thinking it's just a parable because it is not. Jesus has the "keys of hades and death" (Rev.1:18). And when He returns, those who have died in Christ, who are waiting in paradise, will rise first (1Thess. 4:16-17). God does not contradict himself in the Bible, it is people that misinterpret scriptures like Ep. 4:8-9. Hell does exist, it was created for Satan, his demons, and all those outside of Christ, but no one is there yet, not until Jesus comes on that great day of judgement. Nikeinlogos |
Date: 10/14/2002 8:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
If you knew what hell really means in the scriptures this would not seem so strange. He did go to hell and there three days later he was resurrectedd to the heavens. Hell is mankinds commom grave. We will all eventually end up in hell, but the scriptures say that all those in the memorial tombs would hear his voice and come out to a resurrection. John 5:28,29... This helps to dispute the notion that hell is a fire and brimstone, everlasting place of torment.  |
Date: 10/14/2002 10:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Those who had died as followers of God in the O.T. did not have their sins totally forgiven but they were rolled back. Those who were followers of God went to a place called Hades when they died. When Jesus came and died for the total forgiveness of sins,He went to release all those who were held in Hades. This place was not a place of torture,but a resting place for those awaiting for Jesus to set them free. Many O.T. prophets referred to the coming of Jesus whom God had promised to come in the last days.. Isaiah 52:1-15 and 53:1-12 are beautiful scriptures referring to the coming of Christ in the latter days,which are now known as the last days. In 1 Pet 3:20,Jesus went to preach to the souls who were in prison.. 1 Pet 3:20 Christ showed his power in all ages by releasing those in the days of Noah. While the ark was preparing, only Noah's family believed and were obedient to God. This amounted to eight persons and these only were saved physically,all the rest perished in the water. Though many of them did undoubtedly humble themselves before God, and call for His mercy, and receive it, but since they had not repented at the preaching of Noah, the ark was now closed, and they lost their lives. God might have extended mercy to their souls. It is these souls who had died that Jesus went to release after His death. If a person goes to the place of tortment(hell) as the man did in Luke 16:19,then God has already brought down judgment upon such people and NOTHING can be done for their release..Their judgment is sealed for eternity. There would be no reason for Jesus to enter this place of torment as there is NO hope for eternal salvation for these souls.  |
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Date: 10/14/2002 12:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
And there you have different interpertations of the same scriptures. But you can not ignore the scriptures that say that the dead are concious of nothing at all. Eccl: 9:5,10 |
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Date: 10/15/2002 2:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 24934
You quoted Jn.5:28,29 but failed to realize that those in the graves will "hear" his voice and come forth. If the dead are not concious at all, then how will they hear the voice of the Son of God? In Luke 16;19-31 you will notice how Lazarus is fully concious, not only him but Abraham, and the rich man are also. In John 11 we read where Jesus plainly states that Lazarus is dead (vs.14). Then come down a few verses to 43 where Jesus "cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth bound hand and foot with graveclothes..." Does this sound like Lazarus was not concious? And by the way, when Cain killed Able what was that voice that God heard calling him from the ground??? Dont let Eccl.9:5,10 keep you in the dark. Nikeinlogos |
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Date: 10/15/2002 6:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
When you are in a dead sleep someone can still come in and wake you up. They call out your name and you respond. That is the way it is with those that asleep in the grave but the only voice that they can hear is that of Jesus when he actually calls them from their graves. And this for their resurrections. |
Date: 10/15/2002 7:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 53500
Ah the old doctrine of Soul Sleep, also taught by Seventh Day Adventists. The people in hell are concious, hell is a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. See the story of the man that goes to hell as told by Christ in Luke 16. The guy is very concious and pleads to have his brothers warned about hell so that they would not suffer the same torment that he was suffering. SUEDE  |
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Date: 10/15/2002 11:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
Suede, Jesus used illustrations when teaching people. He also used hyperbole's, these are gross and intentional exaggerations to drive home a point. If Hell were a place of torment why did Job beg to be sent there? He knew that Jehovah could resurrect him, but he also knew that the dead were conscious of nothing at all. It would have been a relief for him since he was undergoing intense persecution at that time. |
Date: 10/15/2002 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 12600
PamyJo, if you read that scripture in Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 in context, it can easily be seen that Solomon was trying to tell us that the dead are not concerned with the going-on's (the problems, the joys and sorrows) in the world of the living. If one is to take all that was said in that verse and the surrounding verses to mean EXACTLY what the author said then you might as well give up any belief that you may have in a resurrection to earth for it says in the latter part of verse 6 in that same chapter (NWT),"...they have no portion anymore to TIME INDEFINITE in ANYTHING that has to be done under the sun." It is plain to see that Solomon, in a poetic fashion, was only trying to encourage his fellow man to live life while you are still have a life to live. SUEDE, the response to what you said would be "It is a parable, in the middle of other stories that Jesus told. So, it is only an illustration to prove a point, not an actual place"...yet, the same people who proclaim that this is "only" a story simply because it is in the middle of a bunch of other stories believe that only 144,000 (literal) will be resurrected to heaven although the verse(s) that state this number is right in the middle of a book (Revelation) of symbolism. In answer to Kaja's question, most of Christianity believes that upon the death of Christ he visited hades/sheol (sometimes referred to by some as "paradise"-Lk 23:43) -aka- "the place where everyone went when they died" (most believe that it was separated by some sort of gorge or canyon -- good folks on one side, bad ones on the other -- as described in the story of Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31). Most agree that Jesus went there...many differ on what exactly happened. Some believe he grabbed up those who had believed on his father and carried them to heaven and that from then until now when you die you either go to heaven or hell. Others believe that when we die we still go to this place and await the resurrection and judgement mentioned in Revelation 20.  |
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Date: 10/15/2002 1:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 59392
what |
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Date: 10/15/2002 1:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Hi ya PamyJo..Good to see you here. :) As for "the dead are conscious of nothing at all"...It says in Matt 17:1-3 and Mark 9:2-4 "And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses and they were talking with Jesus"...And in Luke 9:30-31 it says,"And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem"..As we can see, Moses and Elias spoke with Jesus about His coming death.. Moses and Elias had died and was buried long before Jesus was born. How did they speak to Him of His death if they are in a grave and know nothing?..Are you supposing that God allowed this to happen for His own purpose,then after they had served their purpose, God placed them back into their "silent and unknowing" grave? |
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Date: 10/15/2002 1:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
Teep, I appreciate your interest in this, I think that it is pretty evident which way this is going. I really don't understand your reasoning, so as to one thing at a time. Eccl: 9:5,10 in full....The living are conscious that they will die but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all....10,.. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol (the grave) the place to which you are going.... It isn't that difficult to understand there is no other way to look at this. The Dead are NOT conscious of the living. As to your refrence to the 144,000 all that I can tell you is that this is a definate number when it is in contrast to the scripture that says "A great crowd which no man is able to number" So the scriptures are very certain as to one amount and not as to the other. That's one of many reasons that we believe the number 144,000 is literal. And they have a purpose, to rule over that great crowd of Armeggedon survivors. They are the small flock that make up the heavenly government that Jesus spoke of while on earth and made refrence to in his model prayer. "Let your kingdom come" Kingdom in the truest sence of the word is his government. |
Date: 10/15/2002 2:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 50864
yes to show he was the victor The words of the Apostele's creed . No doubt you have recited it many times. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary: Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell: The third day he rose again from the dead: He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty: From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead: I believe in the Holy Ghost: I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints: The forgiveness of sins: The resurrection of the body: And the life everlasting. Amen.  |
Date: 10/15/2002 2:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 42934
You know?....i was brought up in church and of course i stoped going etc, etc, but i recently found out in sunday school, that he did go to hell....it says it in the bible, i just don't know where....  |
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Date: 10/15/2002 4:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 12600
"The Dead are NOT conscious of the living" -- I agree with that. That does not, however, translate into the dead are in God's memory; that they are no such thing as souls...not experiencing anything in a realm unknown to the living. It simply means the dead are no longer aware of what is going on here in this world. So, I do agree with the idea that the dead are not conscious of the living. I'm sorry if my post wasn't clear. I simply said that if you're going to pull those particular verses out of Eccl (vs' 5,10) and say they mean what you are trying to imply that they mean...then you should also do that with verse 6 which states: "),"...they [meaning the dead] have no portion anymore to TIME INDEFINITE in ANYTHING that has to be done under the sun." A verse which pretty much flys in the face of any 'resurrection to earth' theory. Time indefinite, if I understand correctly, means forever. Also, I think that if you are going to apply the "its a story because it's in the middle of a bunch of stories" logic to a the parable of Lazarus, then the same type of logic should be applied to the number 144,000 which is in the middle of a book of symbolism. The whole book of Rev is translated as "symbolic" (even the description of the 144,000 being "virgin Jew males") with the exception of the actual number 144,000 which is translated literally by your religion. I, personally, don't understand that kind of logic. I know that you say that it should be interpreted as a literal number because of the mention of a "great crowd which no man can number", but isn't it just possible that the number 144,000 simply represents or stands for something. That, IMHO, would be more feasible considering it is in the middle of a symbolic book. I will not go on any further in this discussion because I too can see where this is leading:-), but I just wanted to clarify what I said in my previous post. I hope I cleared up any confusion. |
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Date: 10/15/2002 4:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
Hi RUSURE, It is good to see you too. I am tired though, this comes up all the time, I am very sure as I know you are sure that I have the truth, but the fact is 'if' God wanted us to know that when we died some part of us goes on after death there was a wonderful opportunity in the garden of Eden when he told Adam, "In that day you will die" of course this a consequense to his eating the fruit that they were forbidden to eat. They well knew what death meant as the animals were never a part of everlasting life. Jehovah could have told them that a part of them would live on, but not a word was spoken at a time when it would have been so well noted. I am done with this anyway, I've been saying the same things for nearly 4 years and I think that the time has come to quit. |
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Date: 10/15/2002 4:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
Bye Teep. |
Date: 11/7/2002 2:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I MISSED this post, wasnt here but yes he did, if you want more info on this please let me know, msg me.  |
Date: 3/16/2003 9:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 42934
Did anyone find out where in the bible, says Jesus went to hell to take away the keys?
if so please let me know.... |
15675 Category:(Religious) Created:(10/12/2002 9:16:00 PM)